Nashville. Scratching the surface.

Ep. 1 Nashville the town, Nashville the series, a songwriters dream comes true.

• Alison Craig • Season 1 • Episode 1

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Andrew Rollins is a Emmy award winning songwriter with 9 songs in Nashville the series.  He knows Nashville like the back of his hand and in this episode his  co-host Alison Craig delves into Andrews remarkable backstory.

How he was discovered in a bar in Cleveland by a world famous singer. 

How he got to Nashville and ended up with 9 songs in Nashville the series.

Which star turned down a song that made a million dollars.

Which songwriter dicided to have a day off on the day another worldwide hit was penned.

With 40 years as a songwriter under his belt Andrew has a million stories - and a s great story teller this is where the podcast starts.

Due to copyright issues we cannot play music on the podcast but each episode will be accompanied by a Spotify playlist iso you can listen to all the songs discussed just click below to hear it. 

And don't forget you can drop us a text too - the link at the top of this page. 

Playlist for Episode 1

If you enjoy it please subscribe and share. 

Thanks!

Andrew and Alison 

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SPEAKER_01:

You're in tune with Nashville, scratching the surface. Your hosts are Andrew Rollins, Emmy Award winning songwriter with no fewer than nine songs in Nashville, the TV series, and Alison Craig, broadcaster and songwriter. You're in the best hands. Episode one, first things first, let's introduce you to Andrew Rollins, who is a working songwriter and has been for many years, is extremely successful and has some legendary stories. Thank you. You know, your career has been incredible, Andrew, and I know you started as a songwriter when you were a young man and you were kind of spotted, weren't you, in a bar when you were singing and playing?

UNKNOWN:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So tell us about that. I love this story.

SPEAKER_00:

I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and a small town that I lived in called Shaker Heights. And I went to college and got in a horrific car accident, dropped out of college, moved back to Cleveland, and just started playing in the local clubs around Cleveland, doing original material. And one night I was playing and I noticed a very dapper young man dressed to the tens walking up to the bar. And I was walking up to the bar. And when we came together, he said, I really liked what you were doing. You're a good songwriter. And I said, oh, thank you. And he said, but I could show you how to be a great songwriter. And then he put his hand out and he said, my name's Eric Carman. And I didn't recognize him, but I knew who Eric Carman was because all by myself, never going to fall in love again. The stuff he did with a great band called the Raspberries. And he gave me, he wrote down his number on a, we didn't have phones back then, wrote down his number on a piece of paper and said, call me tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01:

You mean you didn't have mobile phones? No, we didn't. Because neither of us are spring chickens, but we're not that old.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. We didn't have mobile phones. Yeah. And so I took down it. He gave me his information, and I called him the next day. And he said, I was really impressed with your writing. He goes, I think that I can really help you. And he gave me his address, and I went to his house. And for the next probably– six, seven months. I'd go three times a week and he would give me writing assignments. Like he'd go, take the song, If I Fell by the Beatles, use those chords, but give me a different melody. And so I would do that. I'd listen to it and kind of put the melody that was going through my head of the Beatles out of my mind and and write a different melody. And some of it would turn out really good. And plus, my background was classical, and his background was classical. He had started out on violin and switched to piano. I had started out on violin and switched to guitar and piano. He taught me how to write a song, the construction of writing a song, and the rules of writing songs. And

SPEAKER_01:

he just did this as an altruistic act. He just found you

SPEAKER_00:

playing and he believed in you. Yeah, he never asked me for anything. We went in the studio and recorded a demo. He sent it to a couple of labels out in Los Angeles, to which I got a response from a guy named David Anderle, who has passed away, but... He said, if you move out to L.A., I can give you a development deal because I can't give you a record deal, but I can give you a development deal. And what that is, is they kind of give you a place to record an ear, a professional ear to listen to the stuff you've created. And within a couple of months, I had a record deal, not with A&M. But with Universal, that was all because of Eric.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, All By Myself was just one of those songs, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

It's been recorded by over 130 artists. The biggest one, Celine Dion. And an interesting story I found out is it had been pitched to Mariah Carey. And she was going to get to it, and when Celine heard it, When her producer heard it, David Foster, he said, you've got to do this. This could be a number one hit. And it hasn't been a hit for 30 years. And it could be massive. And of course, Celine's version of All By Myself is epic. But Eric's is the thing that's amazing about Eric's. And he told me about this after he recorded it. He did a demo in Cleveland. after he was in a band called The Raspberries. And they had a hit called Go All The Way, Let's Pretend, some amazing songs. And when Eric left The Raspberries, he started doing demos to send to record labels. And so he did a demo of All By Myself and sent it to Clive Davis. And Clive Davis flew to Cleveland and sat in Eric's living room and listened to the songs that Eric was submitting, which is like amazing. I mean, Clive Davis, if you understand anything about how he signed Bob Dylan, he signed Janis Joplin. I mean, just the list goes on forever. And he took the time to come to Cleveland and sit next to Eric at his piano when Eric played all by myself. Fast forward, he signs a record deal with Clive's new label, which is called Arista, was called Arista. He flies to Cleveland, listens to what Eric's doing, plays it, and Clive goes, that's a number one song. And Eric thought it was a great ballad, but he had no desire for that being his first song. And Clive said, trust me, I know. And so the demo vocal that Eric did is what became the lead vocal on the track because it was so honest. It wasn't perfect. The pitch was a little wavery at times, but the emotional content of it, you can hear it in his voice.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that is an extraordinary song. I mean, I remember it when it was a hit in the UK, which would have been, I was quite young at the time. But yeah, I can remember all the words. It was one of these songs that just hit you between the eyes and in the heart. And it's totally timeless.

SPEAKER_00:

You were like 11 years old when that song

SPEAKER_01:

came out.

SPEAKER_00:

I think so, yeah. 1975.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I know. But it's timeless. And I guess that's why a song like that will go on forever. And 150, did you say, covers?

SPEAKER_00:

125, I think. Frank Sinatra even recorded

SPEAKER_01:

it. Yeah. I mean, one song like that is a life changer, clearly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it set Eric up for life. And then he had Hungry Eyes and, oh God, Never Gonna Fall In Love Again. Yeah. Haydini, which Sean Cassidy did. And that's rock and roll. And so his career with that one song and that album, it was kind of like what we call a copyright that never goes away.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And it will be covered again, won't it? And it'll be a hit again.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So working with someone like Eric Carman in such a close way as you're developing your own skills as a songwriter must have been an extraordinary experience. But at what point did you think to yourself, ah, I think I've nailed this?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I think any great songwriter, and I'm not labeling, I'm a I'm a good songwriter.

SPEAKER_01:

You're not going to go down the immodest route because I knew your awards tell us. But anyway, I know what you're saying. You're a nice person. You're not going to bump.

SPEAKER_00:

I think you always, you know, it's, and I think I've shared this with you in the past. I believe that all creatives are from the land of broken toys and there's something, there's some magnet that drew us to music and, or songwriting, or piano, or guitar, or whatever, that were, love me, love me, love my music. We all wish and hope for that. Even now, when I write a song. I mean, look how many of the songs that I wrote this last trip to Nashville I sent to you. Because I respect your opinion, one. And two, It's great when somebody can come back to you and go, wow, or just prayer hands or whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

Could we play one of those tracks? I know they're not out. Absolutely, we could play one of those. Excellent. I mean, you were writing with some extraordinary people. Did you just give me the finger? No, I gesticulate a lot.

UNKNOWN:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And even if it did, you know, we're on the other side of the world, so you'd have to run quite fast.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, I know. I know I would have to do that. But yeah, we can. Why don't we play the first success I had in Nashville, which was this town.

SPEAKER_01:

We'd love to be playing the tracks, but it's a podcast, so we can't. But we've put together a Spotify playlist which incorporates all the tracks that Andrew and I talk about during the show. Go to the show notes, you'll find it there. You can listen to them as we go along. That track, This Town, you will probably have heard before on the show Nashville, which is a phenomena in a television sense. It's been running for years and it's It's just on a loop. It's almost like the Friends of 2025. You can find it on most channels at some time or another. And you had a lot of songs in that series, didn't you? Nine. Nine songs. So tell us how, I love the story as to how that came about.

SPEAKER_00:

About 22 years ago, I just, my grandfather loved country music. He loved George Jones, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash. And my grandfather kind of raised me, you know. Every time I'd go out into his work room, he would have the radio on with country music. You know, he stopped loving her today. And Merle Haggard's I'll Break Out Again Tonight. And, you know, just he loved country music. And he... He supported my classical training and was a fan of the violin, but he loved country music. And so I would hear it all the time. And me having a sense of melody would go, wow, that's a beautiful melody. That's whatever that is. It's just great. And the simplicity... You know, they say country music is three chords in the truth. I think it's more than that. But it is the truth because it's about real life. Most of the songs that I grew up on were about everything that people go through. And it was all relatable music. to those people. So I had that in the back of my mind. I always wanted to go, living in Los Angeles, I always wanted to go to Nashville. And I was a musical director for a play out here in LA called Atlanta. And the guy that wrote it is a guy named Marcus Homan, who wrote Bless a Broken Road for Rascal Flatts. Anyway, so I started traveling to Nashville and it was because Marcus invited me. He said, you know, you're a good songwriter. You should you should come to Nashville. So I went there and I made a thing that once every other month I would go there for a week. And, you know. Play or write or both? Write with people, go out and do, you know, like rounds. I went to an open night, mic night at the Bluebird and met the woman that ran the bookings and we kind of hit it off. Is

SPEAKER_01:

that what you call it? Just testing.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So actually to get access at that level in Nashville when you're wandering in there is extraordinary. Because

SPEAKER_00:

that is the place. It took me five years to have any success. And how that happened is a bunch of people were getting songs on this new show called Nashville. And I was sitting with my co-writer. And he said, what do you want to write today? And I said, man, let's write a song for Nashville for the show about this town, about everything about this town.

SPEAKER_01:

That is, yeah, that's a stunning song. And one of nine songs that you had in Nashville, the series, which, yeah. And then

SPEAKER_00:

after

SPEAKER_01:

I got... How did, if I can, button, not like me, I know. But how did it go from sitting in, you know, a room and writing that to suddenly this...

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, here's what happened. I had a bunch of miles on my airline app. And so I was flying back to Los Angeles the day after I wrote this song, this town. And I said, I'm going to upgrade to first class because I had enough points to do that. So I'm sitting in first class and this woman gets on the plane and she's on her phone and she's just like talking and she sits down right next to me. I didn't know it at the time, but she was the casting director for Nashville. And she asked me after she had a martini or two while we were flying, because it's a four hour and 20 minute flight from Nashville to Los Angeles. She looked at me and she said, musician. And I played with her. I said, no, I'm a heart surgeon. And she goes, get out of here. And I go, no, I'm a heart surgeon. She goes, no way. And she goes, what were you doing in Nashville? I said, well, I had a patient at Vanderbilt. And I was just playing with her, right? And after about 10 minutes of doing this, I said, yeah, I'm a songwriter and a musician. She goes, I knew it. She goes, are you any good? And I said, yeah, I'm good. She goes, you got anything I can hear? And so I played her this town. The demo of this town.

SPEAKER_01:

On the aircraft, there and then.

SPEAKER_00:

I handed her my phone with headphones. And she listened to it and she said, can you do me a favor? And unbeknownst to me, I didn't know she had anything to do with Nashville. Okay. So I said, yeah, sure. Give me your email. I'll send it to you. So I sent it to her at the exact same time. or the next day, I get a call from Frankie Pine, who is the music supervisor of Nashville. And she goes, Andrew, this town. I go, yeah. And she goes, is it free and clear? And I go, yeah. And what that means is, are there any publishing companies involved? Are there Writers that are signed to publishing companies. When you get a song on a TV show, they like it to be turnkey. So they don't have to deal with major labels. They don't have to, you know. So it's a one-stop kind of thing. And I go, yeah, my co-writers are unsigned right now. So anyway, she goes, not only is it going to be on the show, but they're going to do a montage scene. where over two and a half minutes of the song was played. So that was my first song on Nashville. The day after that happened, people that would never write with me were calling me.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, my gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

And that sounds kind of terrible, but it's like, You got to really prove your worth if you're going to write Nashville. Nashville is a hard place to break into.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was there last year, you know, and not on that basis, but obviously having been to see you on the way back, I couldn't believe that it was an actual place. You know, it's like an energy and the number of thousands of people all there playing and singing and writing. It's, I mean, it's, it's a joy, but it's, it makes you realize that how many people are out there absolutely, you know, doing their nuts in every day and every night to, to keep their heads above water within that industry. So,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah, it's an extraordinary place.

SPEAKER_00:

yeah, that's why the, the, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, no,

SPEAKER_01:

it's fine. I interrupted you. It's your turn.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and, and I, uh, So I started writing with more people. And then I continued to write with the people that I had had the success with this town. And then I had a song called Tell Me, which is one of my favorite songs I've ever written. And it was done on the show, about two minutes of it.

SPEAKER_01:

And just to explain, because you'd said that obviously this time had been a two and a half minute montage and tell me, obviously, again, you can get, you know, a song, a fabulous song, but a song that can just be maybe you get a 10 second burst of it or something. And obviously the length of time that a song is on, the audience gets more time to hear it, but obviously it's more lucrative. And so it goes on. So,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. The longer the better. That one happened, Tell Me. And then I had a song called Surrender, which was a duet.

SPEAKER_01:

So tell us about Tell Me, firstly.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell Me, I wrote it with the same people that I wrote This Town with. And we wanted to write something up-tempo. And it's just about love. Tell me I'm the only one. The only one you'll ever love. Tell me I'm in your dreams. I'll be your everything. Just like that. And it's an up-tempo ballad, kind of, lyrically. I've done it in shows where I've done it like half speed. And it ends up being five minutes long. But it's still a good song. And when you

SPEAKER_01:

write a song like that, you know, do you get that feeling? Do you all think, I think we've just nailed something pretty special?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I thought this town was really impactful because it was about Nashville and Los Angeles or New York. Any place where an artist or a songwriter is struggling, you know, it's so...

SPEAKER_01:

In anything, and not just songwriting, actually, you know, in any way, path in life that you're trying desperately to get where you're going and constantly getting knocked back and it can destroy and does destroy us, because that's what makes it a perennial theme that appeals to so many people.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But in the context of Nashville, absolutely. And, you know, we were talking about the fact that You spend a lot of time down in that part of the world writing and it is an extraordinary place. It's just full of so many people and so much talent and energy and music everywhere. It's an absolute joy. But you went straight in there to the Bluebird, didn't you? I mean, you didn't hang about. When you went down there, you kind of knocked on that door and, well, what did they say? Overnight success, but

SPEAKER_00:

it took a few years. They had this thing on Monday nights called Open Mic. And, you know, you meet other songwriters like Chris Stapleton or Lee Bryce, all the people that were coming, Ashley McBride, all the people that were coming up at that time that were just kind of like me. You know, songwriters had better voices than me. I've never considered myself a artist, you know, in country music. But I have always thought that I had something to say and something to contribute as a songwriter.

SPEAKER_01:

So you're in Nashville and you're meeting these guys and you all just say, do you want to write a song together?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let's write.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And the thing about that is you build those relationships and then later as people become... more successful you keep those kind of relationships because it's how you got to where you end up you know so you nurture though that that's why every when i write with someone one of the first things i always say to them because i think the most important thing when you go into a right is making everyone around you feel They matter that again, that land of broken toys thing. Let me give you a hug. How are you doing? Oh, good. No. How are you really doing? How's everything going? Well, you know, Mr. Payment on my car, this, that, you know, and you get the real stories from people. That's why you should always be honest when you go into a right, because honesty matters. is something that is so appealing and it affects the masses because everyone has struggled. Everyone's been in love. Everyone's had their heart broke. Everyone's had trouble with money. You have to work. I mean, anything that you do well at, it's because you put in your 10,000 hours.

SPEAKER_01:

You're in tune with Nashville Scratching the Surface with Andrew Rollins and Alison Craig. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and tell your friends. Now, let's get back to it. I remember you telling me a great story about a guy that had written a very good song, but it didn't have all the elements that at that point you had to tick the boxes. You know the story I'm referring to.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, there's a guy named Steve Goodman. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So Steve Goodman wrote a song called You Never Even Call Me By Your Name, is the name of the song. So he took it to his friend, John Prine. And John Prine heard it and said, well, he goes, Steve said to him, I think I've written the perfect country song. And John said, let me hear it. So John listened to it. And he goes, well, you know, you didn't say anything about mama, trains, getting drunk. We're going to jail. And so that night, Steve went back and he wrote a new verse. And the verse is, I got drunk the day my mom got out of prison. And I went to pick her up. In the rain. Oh yeah, another one was rain. But before I could get her, she got run over by a goddamn train. So in that one verse, he allowed rain, getting drunk, prison, and mama. So it was a huge hit. It was a huge hit. Really?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

for a guy named David Allen Coe. And it's a country staple. You hear it in any bar you go into, any cover band will do it. But anyway, so, or before it became a hit, he goes, man, this is going to be a great song. I want to give you something. I want to give you a piece of the publishing. And John Prine said, no, no, no, no. You know, just buy me something nice. And so... it becomes a huge hit. And one day these guys pull up to John Prine's house and they go, he said to his wife, did you order a refrigerator? And she goes, no. He goes, well, there's two guys here that have a big old box. And so they wheel it in the house and they open it up and it's a jukebox box. beautiful, ornate jukebox with every song that John Prine loved in it. Oh, fantastic. So that was his gift from Steve. And in the song, he talks about going to his buddy and asking for his advice on the perfect country song. And this is the perfect country song.

SPEAKER_01:

we'd love to be playing the tracks but it's a podcast so we can't but we've put together a spotify playlist which incorporates all the tracks that andrew and i talk about during the show go to the show notes you'll find it there that is a brilliant story

SPEAKER_00:

steve goodman he also wrote a song called the city of new orleans which was a big hit for arlo guthrie he wrote some amazing country songs

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, you talk there about John Prine, and I gather he is like the songwriter's songwriter. I mean, since I've met you, I've listened to a lot of his stuff. His lyrics are fantastic. He's bloody funny and on many occasions quite close to the edge, if not over it. I'm surprised some of it was actually broadcast when it was written, you know, some of the stuff that he writes. He

SPEAKER_00:

talked a lot about Vietnam. He talked a lot about just, I mean, he would... He would write songs about a bank teller, or he'd write a song about the mailman, or about the guy that came home from Vietnam and had PTSD, and just a plethora of knowledge. It's almost like

SPEAKER_01:

a novelist, almost. I suppose a lot of songs are like that, actually. They are stories, aren't they? Yeah. He told them. So, you know, somebody's listening and they're thinking, John Prine, hmm, where would you start with that back catalogue to

SPEAKER_00:

give somebody a taste? Well, his biggest, one of his biggest songs was a song by Bonnie Raitt called Angel of Montgomery, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't know that was him. That's a fantastic song.

SPEAKER_00:

He wrote that song.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, there's some wonderful stories about him as a man. I mean, as a performer, which songs... It's like your Desert Island Discs. If you had to take one John Prine song with you, which one would it be? Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

there's a song called In Spite of Ourselves that has 77 million streams. Paradise, 17 million streams. Spanish Pipe Dream, 19 million streams. You just go on Spotify and type in John Prine. But Angel from Montgomery is, let me see how, 41 million streams. Just his version of it.

SPEAKER_01:

His version of

SPEAKER_00:

it. Then if you pull up Bonnie Raitt's, I'm sure it's way above that. Because she had a huge hit with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It's interesting, you know, as a punter, as you would say, you know, listening to music for so many years, you... you know, the whole, the art of the songwriting isn't something that people that are listening generally think about. They think, you know, they see the artist and quite often, I certainly used to assume that the artist had written the song. I know it sounds very ignorant, you know, two years down the line having known yourself, but I think a lot of people do, you know, but the interesting thing is the songwriting obviously is the key, isn't it? Because without that, the artist doesn't have anything to do

SPEAKER_00:

well that's what's so great about nashville is nashville celebrates the songwriter you go to the you go to the bluebird cafe you go to the listening room you go to third and linsley all these places every night are the songwriters doing what have become hits you know And it's really great to hear my version of this town is way different than the one that ended, not melodically or, you know, cordially, but interpretation. I do a very, very Americana version.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you got a recording of that? I mean, you must have a recording of your version.

SPEAKER_00:

I've got live versions of it, but I never recorded it in the studio. No, I never did. Mainly because the first year I couldn't release anything. And then I got so busy that...

SPEAKER_01:

Is that because you get tied in and they see this is ours for a year?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, they have a license on it for a year.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And then you can release it. Oh my God, I've heard so many versions of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Good and bad. Yeah. But I do

SPEAKER_01:

remember you saying that when you sent it off to the production company, you knew, this is my song, this is, you know. And when you first heard what they had, how they produced it, you were like, you weren't sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, well, I didn't. It was so different. First off, they turned it into a duet. And, you know, I didn't, we wrote it, From a male perspective, a woman could definitely sing it, but we made it more of something that a guy would say. Not to slight any female artist, but I've heard versions of it. When I first heard it, I thought it was beautifully produced. A guy named Buddy Miller produced it, who is an icon in Nashville. When I heard it, I just went, wow. I had to listen to it a couple of times. In fact, he invited myself and the co-writers to the studio where they were recording it.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

So we got to see it. It's a studio called Ocean Way in Nashville. It was an old church. And there's still stained glass window in the live room. And they call it the church. But it's ocean way.

SPEAKER_01:

Because of the resonance of that must be part of how it manages to sound. Oh,

SPEAKER_00:

God, it's such an amazing room.

SPEAKER_01:

And the thing that strikes me is after all these years and nobody's counting, I've certainly stopped. myself many years ago. But you still, I still get a real sense of, you know, excitement when you're talking about, you know, these things that happened and still happen, you know, that writing process, that creating something from nothing, you know, and then when you do create something like that, it takes on a as you say to you know to Nashville to hear this recording to the TV show to another eight songs in the show you know it's it's an amazing journey but you seem to still have that spark for it you know um and the way we're talking it's like woke up this morning wrote a huge song it was picked up and now you know then I won my Emmy but I know it's it's a it's a lifetime's work isn't it yeah

SPEAKER_00:

it's 40 plus years of doing this

SPEAKER_01:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

you know I'm not I'm not the the 35-year-old I appear to be. I

SPEAKER_01:

don't think you could write the songs that you do if you were 35, could you?

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that's the beauty of songwriting. There's not an ageism.

SPEAKER_00:

My grandfather told me something when I was very young. He said, as you get older, you will know. You'll acquire a thing called wisdom. And I used to go, I was like seven or eight, and I'd go, wisdom? What is wisdom? And he'd go, he used to always tell me, go look it up. And so I'd go look up what wisdom was. And so those things that you learn, one of my favorite sayings, I've shared it with you many times, is I cried because I had no shoes until I saw a man that had no feet. That is... He told me that when I was seven years old. And that was a saying and a motto that I've lived by my whole life. No matter how bad things are, it can always get worse.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, your grandpa clearly was a massive influence in your life. Of course, you know, he brought you up and looked after you and cared for you. But he was the country music fan. So if you were to play a couple of records that you remember when you were a wee boy listening to, you know, just as you say, you came in from practicing your... Violin. You know, your fiddle, your violin, yeah. And then you heard him with his workbench or whatever listening to those tracks. What were those tracks? Give us a couple of those because

SPEAKER_00:

it'd be great. Starting off with Mama Tried by Merle Haggard. Poncho and Lefty. No, it's a duet between him and Willie Nelson. And this one you'll know. Okie from Muskokie. I think I'll just stay here and drink. Are the good times really gone? Are the good times really gone? It's a great song. And, and, uh, Merle Haggard was one of those artists that wrote pretty much everything he recorded. I'm sorry. Are the good times really over? And then in parentheses, it's called, I wish a buck was still silver. Hank Williams, you know, John Bolai and, uh, I'm so lonesome I could cry.

SPEAKER_01:

And remember, though we can't play these on the podcast, you can go along to our show notes and you'll find a Spotify playlist that we'll put together with every show. So you can listen to the music that Andrew and I are talking about whilst you're listening to the explanation and some of the history behind them. Enjoy. You're in tune with Nashville scratching the surface. I mean, country in those days was known, correct me if I'm wrong, but as country and Western, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So where did that moniker come from and where

SPEAKER_00:

did the Western go? I think it came from people like Tex Ritter and Gene Autry, who lived out on the West Coast. And they also would associate it with country and Western because... In country, most people back then were riding horses or cowboys or farmhands, everything that a horse would be involved with, the western part.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Country is very different now. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's different. Absolutely. There's country rap now. And then there's guys like Chris Stapleton that is as country as the day is long.

SPEAKER_01:

And he must be one of the biggest stars in the world. So it's like, although country was a genre, it's almost outgrown being a genre. It's just part of the massive mainstream.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. It's massive. Yeah. You can go anywhere in the world and have country fans.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I.E. Scotland.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, Scotland's always been really, really into country.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, I don't know how they incorporate those bagpipes into it.

SPEAKER_01:

There's got to be a country tune somewhere with a bagpipe in it, do you think? And if not, let's

SPEAKER_00:

write one. ACDC had a bagpipe in one of their songs. That's

SPEAKER_01:

right, that's right. And, of course, he was from Scotland, wasn't he? Bon Scott, the original singer. Yeah, absolutely. But yes, it's a bridge too far, shoving a bagpipe in there. But, I mean, yeah, the modern stuff, new country, they used to call it, but now it's just everywhere. I mean, the mainstream charts are full of what originally would have been called country. We've got, like, Sabrina Carpenters and all these, you know, amazing

SPEAKER_00:

people. Jason Musgrave. Yeah. Ashley McBride. But Ashley McBride is a true country artist.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you think, what's that definition, a true country artist, in your...

SPEAKER_00:

Just staying... Truthful to simplicity and a great story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know?

SPEAKER_01:

And have you worked with Ashley?

SPEAKER_00:

I have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Come on then. Let's have a story. I love a story.

SPEAKER_00:

She's just a wonderful, hardworking songwriter. I've written several songs with her. I haven't had any of them end up on her records yet. Fingers crossed. But yeah, she's one of my favorite people.

SPEAKER_01:

Give us an Ashley McBride track to play just now.

SPEAKER_00:

Bible in a 44. Girl going nowhere. Brenda put your bra on.

SPEAKER_01:

What's it called?

SPEAKER_00:

Brenda put your bra on. It's a great song. I love it. It's really a great song.

SPEAKER_01:

You're in tune with Nashville, scratching the surface with Andrew Rollins and Alison Craig. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and tell your friends. Now, let's get back to it. New artists, up-and-coming artists. I mean, I know you work a lot with Emily West, for instance. I know she won. Did she win America's Got Talent?

SPEAKER_00:

No, she lost to the magician that still has a residency on Emily West to me. is one of the, in any genre, one of the top five singers I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_01:

And that sings something.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. She, my goodness, she had a duet with Keith Urban in 2009 called Blue Sky, which she wrote and And she's one of those artists that I had a couple meetings with executives in Nashville a couple months ago. And Emily came up. And every one of them said my favorite female singer. Not my favorite female country singer. Because Emily does albums. She did an album called Dear Diary, which are all these beautiful ballads and Judy Garland kind of side of things. Beautiful. But we'll get her on this show.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

I

SPEAKER_01:

mean, I know you wrote a few songs with her very recently.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, eight.

SPEAKER_01:

Eight?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. A song called High Rise Love. And we wrote that with, it was me, Emily, and Beth Nielsen Chapman. Another

SPEAKER_01:

incredible singer, actually.

SPEAKER_00:

Singer and songwriter.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Just was admitted into the Nashville band. Oh, Hall

SPEAKER_01:

of Fame.

SPEAKER_00:

The Songwriters Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic. Yeah. I just love her stuff, her voices. I interviewed her a few years ago, actually, and just, she's had a very difficult life, has she not, Beth? Emily? Well, I haven't met Emily, but Beth, certainly, I remember.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Tough.

SPEAKER_00:

But she's just... One of those people that I was just talking to her a couple of days ago. We have a dear friend that is a songwriter that wrote the song This Kiss for Faith Hill with Beth. And she lives out in L.A. And when I came back from Nashville this last trip, I'd gotten a call. I landed and I had a text from Beth saying, I'm in town. Annie Roboff, would you like to write with Annie Roboff? And I said, yeah. What time? She goes, 1230. I landed at 11 o'clock.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, my

SPEAKER_00:

goodness. And drove from the airport and wrote with them for four and a half hours.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

And it was just great. And that's the thing about songwriting is when it's in your blood, It doesn't matter what time it is. It doesn't matter what you're doing. You're waiting for that next thing. I have a friend that is a really great songwriter. And the day that Carrie Underwood was writing a song called Jesus Take the Wheel, he was called and asked if he wanted to join. And he said, I'm not going to write today. Two months later, a friend, a co-writer friend of his said, I just wanted you to hear the song we wrote the day you decided not to

SPEAKER_02:

write

SPEAKER_00:

with us. And it was Jesus Take the Wheel. Now, granted, would that song have come out?

SPEAKER_01:

Had a different

SPEAKER_00:

person been in the room? If he would have been in the room, who knows? But because he didn't join that right, Jesus Take the Wheel was created. So it's like, I always, if I can make a right, I'm going to make a right.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. You sit down and you write a song like that. What happens to it then?

SPEAKER_00:

The song? Well, if it turns out to be something good, we go in and demo it. And then, you know, if Beth wants to do it on her record, great and if not you know we look at the pitch possibilities

SPEAKER_01:

right and get it in front of different artists

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so but it's great when you write with the artist because when they have ownership you know other than just being the person singing it

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah an extra

SPEAKER_00:

element they're more likely to put it on their record

SPEAKER_01:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

you know

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's a fascinating world.

SPEAKER_00:

We have to dive into your.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I know I still feel like, you know, well, it's just it's just a new world really for me. And yeah, it's I

SPEAKER_00:

find it easier. It's a world that has been waiting for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, Andrew. Thank

SPEAKER_00:

you. Just scratching the surface.

SPEAKER_01:

And so it was born. Nashville scratching the surface. This is the end of episode one. I really hope you've enjoyed it. We have really enjoyed doing it. We'll be back very soon with episode two. And yeah, if you did enjoy it, then please subscribe and share. And we very much look forward to speaking to you soon. So from Andrew Rollins and myself, goodbye.

People on this episode

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Alison Craig

Host
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Andrew Rollins

Host